Designing The Perfect Follow-Up Sequence with Chris Davis

TAM 041: Chris Davis – The Perfect Follow-Up Sequence

Chris Davis ActiveCampaign LeadPages

For episode 41, I chat with the marketing automation stud muffin and head of marketing automation at LeadPages - Chris Davis. In episode 28, he shared his automation favorites, metrics you should track, and tools you should use.

This week, we talk about how to craft the perfect follow-up sequence.

What's the first thing you should do to start? How to craft your first lead magnet and sequence? How many emails do you need to send? On this episode, he shares  the answers and  guides us through his favourite marketing tactic, he calls it the "single double".

Want to get the "single-double" we mention in the show, click share to unlock your free automation blueprint.

We chat about:

  • How to craft your first lead magnet and sequence
  • Pointers on giving away on your products
  • Ideal open rates
  • How to engage your leads early
  • Teaching them to engage and take action
  • Sending them to a completion page
  • Tags and segments by customer action
  • Delivering what you promise

If you would like to have a chat about how you could be using marketing automation to grow your business join us in the Automation Nation private Facebook group

Links Mentioned In The Show

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Barry: I think we just figured out that hashtag for this episode is slipperiness ... hashtag slipperiness.

Chris: (laughs) Slipperiness.

Barry: Yup.

Chris: TM, let me put a TM on there. (laughs)

Barry: TM. TM, right. TM Chris.

Chris: Right.

Now, here's your host, Barry Moore.

Barry: Welcome to The Active Marketer podcast, the podcast that's all about sales, funnels, and marketing automation. We have a repeat guest back this week because I love talking him. He's a great guy. It's Chris Davis, the head of marketing automation over there at LeadPages and he's going to share his tips for building the perfect follow up sequence.

But before we do that, we're gonna do a little bit of a shameless social proofs segment where we read out your five-star iTunes reviews. This week we've got one from Australia from Ronsley he says, "5 stars. This podcast does a great job. He tells it true, is entertaining, provides value. This was a refreshing contrast. This is one of the truly useful and informative podcasts. I love that this show is here to keep me updated of the best tools of sales marketing automation."

Thank you very much, Ronsley. I really appreciate it. If you want me to read your name out on a future episode, by all means, head over to iTunes or Stitcher, leave us a review, let us know what you think. It also helps drive the podcast up in the rankings in iTunes, which makes it easier for people to find all this great sales and marketing automation information.

So, this week we've got Chris back to talk about the perfect follow-up sequence, so let's jump straight into the interview.

Oh, I'd like to welcome back to the show marketing automation superstar, Chris.

Chris, how are ya?

Chris: Barry, I am excited to be back and honoured that you brought me back.

Barry: Always fun to talk to you, man, and get insights as to what you're doin' and what's happenin' over there at LeadPages and just ... There's a few people out there that I follow in marketing and automation ... You're definitely one of 'em, 'cause you're always puttin' out some killer advice. So I thought we'd get ya back ... Gettin' a lot of new people coming on board, wanting to know where to start, how to start ...

Chris: Yeah.

Barry: Got a new case study here running as well, but, that was really about how you get up and running, so now let's talk about how you craft your first lead gen sequence. Does that sound cool?

Chris: Yeah, yeah. That's sounds amazing, Barry.

Barry: So just quickly, I know LeadPages is gettin' ready for a lob event, how's that goin'?

Chris: It is going easy for me, because all I have to do is show up (laughs). Right? So that's the easy and exciting part ... That I get to engage with people. You know I love engaging with people, figuring out where they're stuck and just helping them move on. So, I'll get to interact one-on-one with a lot of our customers. It's exciting, man. I'll probably get to meet Pat Flynn in person for the first time ever and a couple other marketers there ... Top marketers. So I'm excited about that.

Barry: Can you make sure Pat stops periscoping for a little while?

Chris: (laughs) He'll probably be periscoping ... (laughs)

Barry: Oh, I know he will. He was in Brisbane recently, actually, which is about an hour down the road from me and he was ...

Chris: Oh nice.

Barry: ... Periscoping the whole time. He got lost in the middle of the city, he was looking for diapers or something, and he's doing a Periscope ...

Chris: Oh wow.

Barry: ... And I just happened to come by and I was like, "What is goin' on here?"

Chris: (laughs)

Barry: It's an interesting tool, it's gonna be interesting to see where that all settles out ... [crosstalk 00:03:42]

Chris: Oh yeah.

Barry: So let's talk about lead-gen sequences. I know you've got some great ones over there at LeadPages and ...

Chris: Yes.

Barry: ... some of the ones you've created for your own businesses.

Chris: Yes.

Barry: Pretend I'm a newbie. Pretend I don't know where to start. What's the first thing I should be doing when I consider setting up my first lead gen sequence?

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. So, I like the newbie approach because even us advanced users can use a gentle reminder that it all starts with your product. Absolutely must have a product or a clear destination. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be clear. You have to know where you want to take somebody, okay?

How I look at it is, your follow up is a slippery slide, all right? That means that somebody should sit down, by opting in, and be able to just smoothly go along to the destination that you've determined. The amount of slipperiness (laughs), or how slippery that slide is, is essentially how effective your copy is. That's a way of saying you have to know who you're talking to and what they want.

If you have those two things, your follow up sequence will be extremely strong and I would argue better than most people that you follow (laughs) if you get that right. With that as the foundation, the entry point, of course, is the lead magnet. Anyone who follows me knows that I take the mystery out of creating your lead magnet because it is a piece of your product. The simplest thing is to think a book. If you're selling a book, give away a chapter so that what you're giving away is a subset of the product itself so that when somebody consumes your lead magnet and your follow up, buying your product is a no-brainer and the confusion has been eliminated.
Barry: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I like to use the kind of a train metaphor, right? Nobody starts building a railroad without knowing where the tracks are goin' first.

Chris: There you go. There you go.

Barry: You know your lead magnet is the first station on that train line and it's going to take to you to the next station and the next station and the next station.

Chris: Yeah. Exactly.

Barry: I think we just figured out the hashtag for this episode is slipperiness ... hashtag slipperiness.
Chris: Slipperiness.

Barry: Yup.

Chris: TM, let me put a TM on there.

Barry: TM. TM, right. TM Chris.

Chris: Right, so now that we understand that you need a lead magnet ... To demystify what a lead magnet is ... it's something you're gonna give away for free. Call it whatever you want to, but you're gonna give it away for free so, be prepared for that. A lot of people startin' off, they want to hold everything like it's important. Give it away for free there's more where that came from. You'll improve as time goes on.

So you have your lead magnet and a common question that I get is, "Okay, once I get their email how many emails do I send them?"

Barry: Yeah, exactly.

Chris: (laughs) Right? "Uh, 5, 7, 8?" There is no answer for this. That's what makes it really hard, but I've come up with a framework that makes it very easy to get started. I always recommend for your lead magnet ... the easiest way to create a lead magnet is like, "Five Ways to Do Something You Know How to Do to Get Something They Want." Right? So, "Five Things to Use Marketing Automation to Scale Your Business," or, you know, whatever. Right?

So you've got five things and that is gonna set the number of emails that you're gonna send. So if I've got five things, I'm going to send five emails. It's a very simple framework to use and it automatically answers that question and removes a hurdle so you can keep moving.

Barry: Five Things to Get More Slipperiness in Your Marketing

Chris: (laughs) There you go. "Make Your Marketing More Slippery", you know, whatever.

Barry: I just want to loop back to something you said there quickly before we gloss over it, but, there is no right answer, right? Everyone says, "Oh, how many emails do I send? What do they say?" There's no right answer. If you look guys who do killer marketing, you know, Andre Chaperon, Ben Settle, right?

Andre does it completely different to Ben, and Ben does it completely different to Andre. Ben's sending every day and most of his emails aren't really about much of anything, but they work for Ben. And then Andre crafts his to the Nth degree and he creates a huge story and they work for Andre.

There isn't one thing that works for every body. You kind of have to tie it back to your product and you have to kind of tie it back to yourself and how authentically he does it ... Does it match who you are as a person and as a business owner?

Chris: Absolutely.

Barry: There's no right answers but there's good places to start.

Chris: Yeah, and we can't get away from the basics of business. Supply and demand. What you want to do is, as the demand increases, so should your supply. If people want more email from you, (laughs) give 'em more email. Get what I'm saying?

I just love keeping business very simple and like you're saying, there's no perfect answer, there's no right way. I have one sequence right now that's live, it's 420 emails.

Barry: Holy moly.

Chris: (laughs) 420. Then I have another one that's 3, Barry. It's totally different audiences, and guess what? They both have over 40% open rate. I mean, there you go.

Barry: Yeah, it's working obviously.

Chris: I know what my following wants to hear from me. As I said in the foundation piece, that is a critical piece to this 'cause that's going to guide your copy so that you're writing what they want to hear.

Barry: For sure, for sure.

All right, so we've got our lead magnet, five things to make your marketing more slipperier ...

Chris: Yes. Right

Barry: ... Then we've got the follow-up sequence which is five emails. So, are you just reiterating those five points from the lead magnet?

Chris: There you go. There you go. Exactly, right? Simple, right?

So now we've got their email, we have an opportunity. We don't have the time on a landing page, because we need their email, but now we have it we have time to expound on those 5 points. The strategist in me will not allow anybody to expound on those points without tying them into the product. What does that look like, Chris? That means a call to action in every single email.

The call to action in each one of these emails should be to get them to make the next step, which is to purchase your product.

Barry: Yeah, for sure. Are you going straight for the call-to-action to purchase or are you ramping that up as the five go, like, one might be just to get them to reply, and then the next one's to some more information ...

Chris: Right right right. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Definitely. I'll dive into what the sequence should do but normally, my welcome email, I don't include that in the five. The welcome email they get immediately. After that, start with your five points, and each point tied to your product ... A lot of times, right now, if you're starting out you're scared to ask.

Barry: Yeah, for sure.

Chris: I'll just say, "Closed mouth doesn't get fed."

Barry: (laughs)

Chris: (laughs) You are going to starve to death. In fact, I would actually like to flip that dynamic ... it really comes from a lower self view in your business ... Instead I would like to say that people are waiting for you to offer it to them. They don't know it exists.

Barry: They asked, you know. They just gave you their email which everyone guards really really tightly, right? It's like, they've agreed to go out on a date with you, so lean in for the kiss, man.

Chris: Absolutely, yes.

I can't remember ... I think it's like ... "I'd rather live with remorse ..." I can't remember the saying but it's somethin' about, "I'd rather do than regret not doing it." There's a fancy saying.

I would hate to be on a date with one of the most beautiful women in the world and she's ready ... She's got the lip gloss on, she's got the breath mint in and the only reason why I didn't get the kiss is because I didn't ask for it. Oh my god, I couldn't live with that, Barry. I couldn't live with that.

Barry: That's right.

Chris: Hence I'm married today.

Barry: Stop being a wussy and just sell.

Chris: (laughs)

Barry: I think I want to loop back to somethin' quickly.

Chris: Yeah.

Barry: Which probably ties in to why you set up your sequence this way, is, you know, as marketers, as business owners, as product creators, we all craft our little babies and send them out into the world as lead magnets and someone's downloaded it and "Hooray!" You get the little notification that someone's download your lead magnet ...

Don't assume that they've read it at all.

Chris: (laughs)

Barry: It probably ends up ... Most of the time it probably ends up in a folder with the other hundred lead magnets they've downloaded and not read, right? So, another reason to hit 'em up in the emails with the main points from your lead magnet, 'cause you can't just assume that they've read it.

Chris: There you go. Exactly. It ties into why you're going to use those five points. It's less work for you, you're not hittin' 'em with something new, and you're taking into account the fact that they didn't read it and if they did read it, it'll be even more powerful because you'll be reiterating what they read. Cool.

Barry: So let's talk about those emails then. So what's in the welcome email?

Chris: So, your sequence that you're building ... It should engage them early. First it should deliver the promise. I don't want to gloss over that. Like, you told them you're going to give them an ebook, please give them the ebook. Seriously. Do not not give them the ebook. After that, you want to engage them early because early engagement will increase the responsiveness of your list and it's hygiene. So, in that first email, your main objective is to get them to reply or click a link. Either one of those is gonna give you a better reputation with your email sending service. Get a reply or get a link clicked. A reply is stronger because now how they're gauging reputation is they're treating when someone replies to you as more ... it has a bigger reputation ... but if someone clicks a link you've proven that it can enter their inbox, they can open it, and clicked it, so you're training them to take action. So, engage them early is what that welcome email should do.

Barry: Yeah for sure. If you can get both, boom. Even better.

Chris: There you go.

Barry: Just a quick question on that lead magnet delivery, so, are you sending them ... Well, first of all, are you doing single or double opt-in off of those?

Chris: Yeah, so, Barry this is what I was so excited to come on here and share is, I'm doing a manual automatic double opt-in.

Barry: Ouch, that sounds painful, man.

Chris: (laughs) So I called it the single double, that's the easy way to say it. The single double. It is single opt-in in nature, but it has the same results, or the same effect, as a double opt-in. I'm just in control so ...

It's really simple. I'm going to show you how to do it in a minute, and I'm going to give you all a nice little gift to help you implement it for yourselves.

Barry: Awesome, awesome.

Just before we get to the single double triple back flip ...

Chris: (laughs)

Barry: ... In that welcome deliver on your promise thing, are you sending them to kind of a completion page where they can download the lead magnet from there or are you sending it in an email as a link? Or are you doing both?
Chris: Yeah, so me personally ... and of course there's two ways to do it ... It all depends on my objective. Most of the time I'm not delivering the magnet on the Thank You page. That's something I have never done ... I've seen people do it and it works well but I don't do it. I always deliver it to them in an email.

So that welcome email will have the link for the magnet in there for them to download with an engagement call-to-action to reply and or click. As you see, that's how I get them to click in the first email. So, yeah, always in the email for me.

Barry: Okay. Cool.

Let's go back to the, what did you call it? The single double- what was it?

Chris: Yeah, the single double. It's what I call it. And one thing I didn't mention, I want you all to keep in your mind, when you're building your follow-up sequence is that everybody talks about marketing people, it's to establish trust ... gain, credibility ... by establishing trust people buy things from people they know, trust and like, or whatnot. To really keep that simple for a lot of you is understand that the best thing you can do it is educate the people in your follow-up sequence. If you can turn on the light bulb in their brain you will forever be the owner of that information and it will always ... they will always been tied to you in some way. It doesn't matter what they have heard from other people. If you can educate them in a way where the switch turns on, you will forever be held at a high point, or a high value, in their minds.

And Barry, I see this all the time with your course ... Your ActiveCampaign course on Udemy ... every time somebody goes through that course, they walk away enlightened and then when they jump into the community, they're like, "Barry, you're a rock star!" It's because you were the first one to turn on that light. So, in your follow-up sequence, think about this as you're writing out your emails, you know, "What can I give them to really make a light turn on, like the switch click?" 'Cause once that's on, you got 'em. Their yours. You just continue to educate and market with integrity.

Barry: Very cool. Very cool. All right.

Chris: Let's get into the single double, Barry.

Barry: Chris, single double trademark.

Chris: I stumbled across this back in my days with Infusionsoft and Autopilot and everything and ActiveCampaign allowed me to do it so easy, I was like, "oh my god." Actually, Barry, people may not even realise there's a timer in ActiveCampaign that no other platform has, and I'm going to introduce it. Right here, right now.

Barry: And at the time we're recording this, they just put universal time into the automation sequence.

Chris: Woo! If I could scream and not be judged, I would do it right now.

Barry: We don't judge. This is a safe environment, Chris.

Chris: All right, so check this out, Barry. Everybody knows single-double. Single opt-in is somebody enters in their email address and they are automatically added to your list. Double opt-in means that their not added to their list, even though they've entered their email address on your landing page, their not added to your list 'til they click a link in a confirmation email that their sent.

Barry: Right

Chris: So, a lot of people use double opt-in because it keeps your list clean and it's good practise. A lot of people use single opt-in 'cause they don't care about that. (laughs) They just want the emails to start marketing.

I'm right in the middle. I am right in the middle. I understand both and I know a lot of people starting out ... They really should use double opt-in because there's a lot of trust that they need to build up. But once your trust is built, and your brand is establish. You should move to single opt just to be able to eliminate the friction. Remember, keep the slide slippery.

What I've got, is a middle ground that works for both starters and advanced users. The nature of it is single opt-in, so this means, they are going to enter in their email address and they're gonna be added to your list. So, before I say that, I subscribe to Barry's ideology of using a master list in ActiveCampaign. One main list that all of your contacts are added to, because we're gonna use tags to segment them by the actions that they take, okay?

Barry: We're all about the tags here.

Chris: Yes. Yes. So you're gonna need some tags for this. (laughs) You've got your master list, they opt in and they're added to the master list and they're sent the welcome email. This welcome email delivers the promise and engages them and asks them to reply. All right? Here's where it gets very interesting. If I am one of those people that I know, I've seen time and time again, Barry ... If they don't engage early, it's gonna be very hard to get them to engage later. Right?

They gave you their email address is the hottest they'll ever be. Okay? Unless they attend a webinar or some other event that heat 'em back up. But right then and there, if they don't take action there, the chances that they take action later drop exponentially as they remain on your list. A lot of people keep sending these people emails and then it just hurts your reputation. So I'm one of those people that ... I don't necessarily care if my list is at 100,000. If it's 10,000 and all of 'em are highly engaged, I guarantee you I'll always beat your 100,000 list, all right? Understand that is my mindset when I do that.

So the first email has gone out. What I'm looking for is ... I'm waiting for a link click. Once they click a link in that first email, I have an automation in ActiveCampaign that just sets a tag that says they are either engaged or they're marketable. It just means, this person, I know I can reach their inbox. All right?

So that's the first email. I have that automation running for every ... any time somebody clicks a link or opens the email, I'm gonna say, "Hey, they've engaged for the most part." I have tag that says their engaged. Because now I know I can reach their inbox. That's the whole point of double opt-in ... is to make sure you that you somebody's inbox.

Barry: Right.

Chris: So, I've sent them that welcome email, well guess what happens? What if they don't open or click the link? Now I have a yes-no branch. (laughs) Right?

Barry: Yeah.

Chris: I'll wait a day, and I see, "Have they clicked or opened an email?" If it's no, if they have not, I'm going to send them a reminder. It's real simple, it's like, "Hey! Did you still want this?" (laughs) Like, literally, that's the subject line. You'd be amazing at how many people, "Oh yeah, yeah! I do!" And they'll go in there and they'll click. Guess what? They open the email to click, now I know I can reach their inbox.
Barry: Yeah, we have a saying in Australia, it's, "Oy!" ...

Chris: (laughs)

Barry: ... Did you still want this?

So, this is for new subscribers who haven't been on your list previously so this isn't necessarily for somebody who's ...

Chris: Yeah, yeah, so if they've been on your list

Barry: ... been on your list and then decided they'll [crosstalk 00:22:02]

Chris: Absolutely, so guess what? If they've been on your list, and they've already opened and clicked the email ... That condition ... That initial condition will already be met.

Barry: That's right.

Chris: They'll just continue down the flow, which is beautiful, right? So, here's where I wanted to introduce a wait state. In ActiveCampaign they got the first email, I waited a day to see if they clicked the link or opened it. They have not. So now they've got this reminder. There is a wait in ActiveCampaign that says, "wait until."

Barry: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Chris: So you can wait ... well, I think it's "wait until." I think it's actually, you can wait a certain amount of days or ... You can wait until an action has taken place or a specified amount of time ...

Barry: Or even both actually.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah.

So this wait is both, I should have had it up. But anyways, it's in the automation that I'll share with you at the end of this podcast. So, what I do is, I have this two-condition wait state. I'm going to wait for an email to be opened or a link to be clicked, or, wait for 30 days. Some you can do 14 days, you can do 7 days. It all depends on you, right?

So what that is saying is, "I'm giving you 30 days to click this link, and if you don't click it, I'm gonna add a tag to you that you're not engaged." So when it comes time to do list clean-up or hygiene or whatnot, you will be getting the boot, or you'll be added to a retargeting list. Or, when I'm sending my broadcast, I'm going to suppress you because you haven't engaged.

Barry: A couple guys around the [crosstalk 00:23:36]

Chris: (laughs)

So this works beautifully because you immediately philtre out the people who aren't serious, just out the gate. Now that you know in ActiveCampaign, you can go and look up your tag "engaged" and how many ever people pull up under that tag, you know you're open rate is going to be at least 30%. I've never seen this sequence not create and open rate of over 30% for campaigns sent to people that use this, ever.

Barry: Wow. So that's 30% of when you're sending that that engaged segment? Or ...

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Sending out a broadcast, like a campaign is what it's called.

Barry: ... Just to clarify, since this is not a very visual medium, so that wait 30 days that's under that no branch and that they haven't clicked ...

Chris: Yes.

Barry: ... So, you've got that yes-no branch, "Have they opened this?" No they haven't ... then you can send them that "Oy mate! Open the email," one. Then you're gonna wait 30 days and give them the boot or, put them on a less engaged segment or we're gonna have to get rid of them all together.

Chris: Absolutely. What that timer is gonna do is say, "Any email- have they clicked?" "Any email- have they opened?" Or, "Has it been 30 days?" It's looking for those three events and just one of them has to be satisfied and they'll move on. Once they move on ... 'cause it's like, "Oh, they clicked!" ... they'll move on and then you know, in ActiveCampaign I use the "Go To" action and I just send that "Go To" action to email number two, which would be the first email in your follow-up sequence. Then they get the rest of the delivery sequence.

Barry: So, this will be a bit more apparent when we do the show notes, but, so is that five email or, in this case six because you've got the welcome letter plus the five ... That was under the yes branch?

Chris: Yes. It's under the yes branch ... They have to engage to get it, Barry ...

Barry: And then ...

Chris: ... Because if they don't, I know I'm going to send emails (laughs) that they don't care about.

Barry: Exactly right. So that "Go To" action basically moves them off that no branch, across over onto the yes branch.

Chris: There you go.

Barry: [crosstalk 00:25:43]

Chris: Yup. There you go. Yup.

This is kind of like the starter of all of my sequences. (laughs) All of my sequences do this. Like I said, I'm glad you brought up if they are already on your list 'cause if they're already on your list, this never affects 'em.

Barry: That's right.

Chris: Here's what you'll see too, Barry. Because most people ... like I said, I have 30 days ... I'm intentional with 30 days because I send a broadcast. I send broadcasts, right? Most people are sending a weekly broadcast so what you're saying is, "You didn't open my first email, so I'm going to send four broadcast emails to you and if you open any one of those four emails, or click a link in there, I'll finish delivering what I promised." I'll finish nurturing off the initial opt-in.

So, it's really ... It took me awhile to really architect it and understand how to do it, but when I got my hands on ActiveCampaign, it was like the missing piece, 'cause I've kinda been holding it in my hand ... I've built it out at least ... I can't count how many times I've built it out and it's worked like magic every time. Every single time. Engaging people early and delivering what you've promised goes a long way. You don't have to be all tricky and all these tactics, you've just ... Do what you're saying and do it well.

Barry: I tell you what, man. I've talk to lots and lots of internet marketers and lots of automators and there's a really common theme. And that common theme is just keep it really simple, and do that simple thing really well. Like, you don't have to get super complex with this thing.

Chris: Yes. That's it. And if you use like, the single-double like I'm saying, it doesn't matter how long your nurture sequence is. It doesn't matter. Because this is just the first email that you're using this to get your high engagement so that when you look at ... you know, when people progress through ... they're engaged and it works.

I will say, one thing to make sure of, is when you're building out your follow up sequence, remember, you're asking and encouraging people to reply. So, please reply (laughs) to their emails. Oh my goodness, please reply as fast as you can, honestly, to their emails. You don't have to be a slave to them, but, you have to ... the faster you can reply the more trust you've built.

Barry: That's right, that's right.

So, just quickly, let's go back to that five follow up sequence. Or that six email follow up sequence. Got the welcome and the five follow ups, or however many steps there are in your lead magnet.

Are those going out every day? For the next five days or ...

Chris: Yeah. You know, I've seen a lot of people kind of do the first one is a one day delay, then the next one three day, the next one five. Pat Flynn recently showed one of his sequences that goes out like 30 days and it's only like 6 emails. But he's got like 5 days, 9 days in between. I would recommend starting out, just use a day delay ...

Barry: Yeah.

Chris: ... Between each one. Starting out. As you get more advanced or more in-the-know with your contacts in your database, you can start spreading that out or whatnot. But, starting out, one day delay between all of them.

Barry: And then the other question I had, was, while they are in that five email sequence, or six email sequence ...

Chris: Yeah

Barry: ... are you isolating them from broadcasts as well, so that they are just getting ...

Chris: I am.

Barry: ... this five before you start broadcasting to them?

Chris: Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up. Yeah. I'm isolating them. I have what we call "Do Not Disturb" mode. (laughs) I will not disturb them while they are digesting that follow up sequence. Now, afterwards, right when they finish, I apply the tag that enables them to start receiving my broadcasts on my campaign.

Barry: So you're just using a tag to isolate them. So your broadcast segment is like, "Everybody but the people with the isolated tag" or the "Do Not Disturb" tag.

Chris: Absolutely.

Barry: Cool. Very cool.

All right, man. That was cool. Very practical. Very exciting. You're upselling in each of those five emails as well?

Chris: Yes. As I mentioned, if you're selling a book, you gave away a chapter, right? And in every email, you're doing something like, "I go about this in depth in my book," or you know, you're mentioning ... It's not a real hard push, Barry. I don't want people to think they have to be this used car salesman type person.

What you're doing is you're explaining that there's more in the product. You know like, "I mention this ... in Chapter 5, I write on ... you know, I mentioned X, Y, Z. I provide the framework, in Chapter 7. I provide this framework in Chapter 7." You get what I'm sayin'? Then provide them a link to get the product.

Barry: Yeah. You're just givin' them more of what they're interested in. Hashtag, slipperiness.

Chris: Right. Slipperiness.

Barry: Awesome, awesome. Well, that's a fantastic sequence, Chris. I understand you're going to share that with all the listeners as well, is that right?

Chris: Absolutely, Barry. I know ... I knew before I came on, that this was going to need a visual representation. So, I have exactly that. I have a blueprint. It is literally a blueprint ... blue background, white text, everything. It maps out all of these automations and how they need to be set up, but I'm not stopping there.

There's also a link when you download this blueprint to download the automation in ActiveCampaign so you can just import it from there. You don't have to build it, you can just start building out your follow up emails and be up and going with little to no friction. Slipperiness.

Barry: Hashtag slipperiness. Chris [inaudible 00:31:13]

Chris: (laughs)

Barry: Yeah, that's fantastic. So, if you want to head over the show notes, there'll be all the information we just mentioned there ... you'll be able to download it. Chris ...

Chris: Yes.

Barry: ... I want to thank you so much for coming on sharing another great sequence with us. Always great talking to you. All the listeners out there, if you want some more great marketing information from myself and Chris, you can just us in the Automation Nation private Facebook group. Just head over to Facebook and type in Automation Nation, ask to join, and we'll let you in, and you can share in all the great minds in marketing automation that are constantly sharing great tips inside there.

Chris: And I will say, Barry, we don't hold back.

If you have a question, it's going to be answered. I've been known to even private message people if they need a little more hands on approach. So it's not one of those groups where we're out to get something. We're truly out to give and educate you on marketing automation so you can succeed.

Barry: Yeah. Chris and I both kind of share an ethos and a vision that more people need to get this stuff ... We're on a crusade to educate about marketing automation. That's why we love talking to Chris. By all means, join us inside the community and you will learn stuff every single day in there, it's great.

Chris: Absolutely. And I would say, just in case, because I know you publish this to Stitcher and iTunes, if you don't have access to the show notes, I'll make it easy for you as well. I've got a link for you: and you'll be able to download that blueprint as well.

Barry: And you'll be subjected to the single-double, no doubt. Awesome

Chris: (laughs) Yes you well.

Barry: Thanks again for comin' on. Always a pleasure to talk to you and have fun at the upcoming LeadPages event.

Chris: Yes, yes. I will. Thanks so much, Barry, I really enjoyed it.

Barry: Thanks, Chris.

Well, there you have you. You are now armed and ready to create your own perfect follow up sequence for your lead magnet. I'd like to really thank Chris for comin' on. I love talking to him. He's such a great guy. If you want to find all the show notes, you can find them over at That's where you'll find 'em all. We'll share everything we talked about in the episode including an automation that Chris is gonna share with everybody. We'll have links to that. Chris and I also run a closed Facebook group called Automation Nation. So, if you want to learn everything about marketing automation, you want your questions answered, you want to pick up some great tips from the collective wisdom of all the members of Automation Nation, head over to Facebook. Just do a search for Automation Nation and let us know you heard about it on the podcast, request access to the group and we'll look forward to seeing you inside.

By all means, you know by now if you're a listener that you need to get your tagging sorted out. Every marketing automation platform runs, lives, and dies by its tagging. That's why we've created our own lead magnet which is The Ninja Guide to Tagging and you can pick that up for free and get your tagging sorted out. You can head over to the and download your free Ninja Guide to Tagging.

You can read that while we're busy recording the next episode and we'll see you back next week for another great interview. In the meantime, get out there and design, automate, and scale your business to the next level with sales and marketing automation. See ya everybody.

Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Active Marketer Podcast. You can find the show notes and all the latest marketing automation news over at

Barry Moore

Entrepreneur, aviator and former eCommerce and technology executive, Barry Moore is the founder of When he isn't geeking out about how sales and marketing automation can help your business, you can find him in the surf or in an airplane.

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